Sunday, December 23, 2012

Mayor Joe Riley's Ideas for Gun Control

The much beloved mayor of Charleston has an editorial in Sunday's Post and Courier detailing his proposal for new gun regulations. I have a great deal of respect for Mayor Riley, and he is arguably the most successful mayor in South Carolina. Accordingly, I was interested to see what he thought would be "common-sense" regulations.
1) Restore the assault weapons ban. These are not sporting weapons. They are not needed for protecting our homes or for self-defense. And conversely, when they get in the hands of deranged or hate-filled people, they become the tools of mass murder.
An assault weapon can shoot many rounds per second. These are deadly, certain to kill — the weapon and the operator of the weapon can reload in seconds and keep firing.
Sigh. His first proposal is to restore the Assault Weapons Ban that was previously in effect from 1994 - 2004. What's an assault weapon again? I keep forgetting. When you think about the words, it's kind of funny. If I beat you to death with a lead pipe, the lead pipe would be the weapon...which I just assaulted you with. Oh no! Lead pipes can be assault weapons! So it's a silly term, and people who use it are equally silly and unserious.

Also, was everything better from 1994 - 2004? I don't remember a wave of peace breaking out across the nation. Anyway, Riley's assertion that certain types of firearms are not "sporting" strikes me as both odd and irrelevant. There isn't a "sporting" aspect in a great many firearms. However, that isn't a reason to ban them. Firearms aren't solely for "sportsmen".

On a side note, I really hate it when someone says You can still keep your guns for hunting and sporting. First of all, thanks for allowing me to continue exercising a basic right. Don't do me any favors, bro. Second, the point of the Second Amendment had nothing to do with hunting. I may do a whole post on that later.

Back to Riley, he throws out the "No one needs a _______..." argument for guns. We don't make things illegal based on whether or not they are necessities. We don't really need  a law school in Charleston, but they decided to put one there. You don't really need that dopey-looking SmartCar, but people have them anyway.

Just like guns, SmartCars can become a tool for mass murder in the hands of a deranged person. Maybe we should talk about helping deranged people. (just a thought)

Riley's second paragraph here is odd. Is this Riley's definition of an "assault weapon"? Firing many rounds per second? Also, "these are deadly, certain to kill" makes no sense. Most guns are "certain to kill" if you shoot someone in a vital area. However, Riley seems to be saying that the reason these guns are "certain to kill" is because you can quickly reload them. Wait, what?

You can quickly reload almost all firearms, or maybe you can't. That has to do with the skill of the person - not the firearm. I could give the same firearm to two different people, and they would reload it at different speeds based upon their familiarity with the firearm.

This first idea makes people in the "guns are icky" group feel good. Unfortunately, it won't really make our society more safe, so it's not really common-sense, is it? But hey, I'm just using reason, logic, and experience here. That's probably not fair.
2) Ban high-capacity magazines. These magazines offer deranged individuals who wish to massacre large numbers of people the means to do so. They can equip semi-automatic and automatic weapons to fire a hundred rounds per minute. An assailant with a backpack or pockets full of these magazines can keep firing for a very long time.
There is simply no place for high-capacity magazines in self-defense or home-protection.
Ok, so we've already banned "assault weapons", whatever those are. Now, we have another proposal to get rid of all those high-capacity magazines for...our "non-assault weapons" that we've been allowed to keep. Awesome.

Unfortunately, Mayor Riley doesn't give us a number on what is "high-capacity". Is it 15, 10, 5, or 3?  No specifics here. I wonder why. Also, notice it's because deranged people could get these. Maybe we should do something about all these deranged people roaming around.

As far as there being "no place" for high capacity magazines in self-defense, that's what my law professors would call a "conclusory statement". It just a conclusion - not an argument. You have to say WHY. Unfortunately we don't get that. Oh well.

Riley here also refers to automatic and semi-automatic, and he just glosses over that. It's almost like he's just throwing those words in there because they sound scary. I'm not going to bore you with the automatic vs. semi-automatic thing, and I'm tired of explaining it over and over. On the specific issue of magazines, it's just silly to think lower capacity magazines are going to change anything. It's like saying you're going to reduce DUIs by requiring that we buy beer in tiny cans. If you have a "backpack or pockets" full of loaded magazines, what's the difference?

Would it make you feel safer if a deranged person had ten magazines that held ten rounds each, or five magazines that held twenty rounds each? Math, how does it work again?

Again, this is a law that makes people feel good, but doesn't accomplish anything. This is some major-league fail-boating. Come on, Riley. You're 0-2.
3) Strengthen the background-check system and close the loopholes in our gun laws.

Through the gun-show loophole, for example, a person who would not be cleared by a background check can go to a gun show and buy an arsenal and go to another gun show and buy another arsenal.

Through purchases at gun shows, any individual can bypass the background check system and fill a house with weapons they are not legally allowed to purchase.
This is ridiculous.

I agree. Currently, if I want to sell you my shotgun, I can do that without as much paperwork as a gun dealer would. Basically, I give you my shotgun, and you give me money. That's pretty much it. Now, I still cannot sell my shotgun to someone who couldn't own it legally (a child, a fugitive, or a mentally incompetent person). So, how would I make sure I don't do this? I just ask you: "Are you allowed to otherwise own this gun?". Yes? Ok, here you go.

Obviously, that's not a great way to check. As you may be aware, people sometimes lie. If there was an easy, free, and quick way for me to check you out, I would do it. Let's figure out how to make that database current, secure, and easily accessible to check. It would allow responsible gun owners who want to sell their guns the ability to make sure they aren't selling guns to bad guys.

HOLY MOLY! I think Mayor Riley and I just came up with a common-sense gun law.

4) We should impose stiffer penalties on “straw purchases” of guns. A straw purchase is when someone who can legally purchase a gun buys one for someone who cannot. A person who facilitates illegal possession of a weapon should face penalties for helping the illegal purchaser circumvent the law and for the consequences of any illegal use of the weapon.

So, Mayor Riley is not saying we need a new law; he's just saying we should impose tougher sanctions for violating a law that we already have. That's cool with me. People who knowingly facilitate getting guns to bad guys should be punished. Count me in on this one.

To sum up, Mayor Riley has two bad ideas (banning some guns, and banning some accessories) that won't solve any problems and two ideas (helping to ensure that background checks can be done and putting tough sentences on criminals) that might help. I guess 50% isn't too bad.

4 comments:

  1. Bryan, saw your post on brad's site.

    Just letting you know I read your post here and will type up a better reply later. I'm at work so my time is limited right now.

    I also added your blog to my blogroll.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thanks! I browsed your site; it's now on my blogroll.

      Delete
  2. "His first proposal is to restore the Assault Weapons Ban"

    Assault Weapon ban is useless.

    You are right there is no way to define an "assault weapon". As in the past if they approved this it would be loaded wit so many exceptions. The NRA will be strongly against this as well since it will restrict the consumers right to buy certain weapons based on the fact they look really scary.

    "As far as there being "no place" for high capacity magazines in self-defense"

    Don't know why he went in the self-defense point. It muddles his argument. One of the primary advantages to limited clip size is it separates it from the second amendment. Restricting certain weapons makes it a constitutional issue. Clip size (In my non lawyer opinion) isn't covered.

    Saying that I work at prepper central. In in the vast majority that I don't have a gun safe that is overflowing. They have much better home defense weapons. Most of them own them for screwing around with at the range or as part of their collection.

    "On the specific issue of magazines, it's just silly to think lower capacity magazines are going to change anything."

    I disagree. Here is my basis.

    First I'll define High capacity magazine for Mayor Riley anything over 10. I'll use that number for the basis of my argument. The gun enthusiast I'm on watch with says 30 shot magazines are probably the most common.

    Lets take a Connecticut situation.

    2 minute duration.
    Firing 2 shots a second
    Reloading takes 5 seconds. Accounts for heat of battle nerves and not counting shots. You will have an extra trigger pull and reaction time due to going dry before recognizing.

    30 shot magazine will be emptied in 15 seconds. then a 5 second reload. Netting you 30 shots every 20 seconds.

    Over 2 minutes the 30 shot clip has to be reloaded 6 times for 180 shots total.

    Now assume the 10 shot magazine. It gets you 10 shots every 10 seconds.

    Over 2 minutes it requires 12 reloads for 120 shots.

    That's a 34% reduction and NOT insignificant.

    Every reload is a chance for things to go wrong as well. In a battle type scenario where your blood is pumping simple actions get dicey. Your hands are sweaty. Go to the wrong pocket. Depending on the weapon reloading may increase the chances of guns jamming.

    Its a built in error trap. Instead of only 6 chances for things to go wrong you doubled it to 12.

    "Would it make you feel safer if a deranged person had ten magazines that held ten rounds each, or five magazines that held twenty rounds each? Math, how does it work again?"

    I really think math is on my side as there IS a difference.

    That is why I support restricting magazines that are greater than 10 shots.

    Gotta head back in. I'll finish commenting later.

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  3. "Obviously, that's not a great way to check. As you may be aware, people sometimes lie. If there was an easy, free, and quick way for me to check you out, I would do it. Let's figure out how to make that database current, secure, and easily accessible to check. It would allow responsible gun owners who want to sell their guns the ability to make sure they aren't selling guns to bad guys."

    Here is a little background on Mayor Riley.

    He is a member of Bloombergs group, "Mayors Against Illegal Gun Violence"

    He is one of the 3 SC mayors that are. Its largely a North East thing and its a pretty unpopular stance to take in SC for obvious reasons.

    So a lot of his views are taken off of their website. They have a few studies which could obviously be rebutted by more pro gun organizations

    Here is some model litigation they use on background checks. Being a lawyer you will probably dig it.

    http://smartgunlaws.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/LCAV_Model_Universal_Background_Checks_8.10.pdf

    I link this because its proposes closing the gun show loophole by requiring all sales to go through a licensed dealer who would perform the checks.

    There will be a cost to doing this. Licensed dealers aren't going to do this for free. It also will require time and coordination.

    There are studies linking the gun laws to gun crimes. The talking point listed in the model ordinance claims that states that don't require background checks at gun shows are twice as likely to being the source for weapons used in crime.

    That talking point is stated here.

    http://www.mayorsagainstillegalguns.org/downloads/pdf/trace_report_final.pdf

    To me the cost and burden to the private seller are reasonable for the protection given to society.

    BTW I enjoyed reading your comments. Gun regulations are a tricky subject. Especially in SC. We have a long standing tradition of wanting a "hands off" policy for govt. I think there IS room to discuss additional gun regulations. Only if it does not infringe on any of the constitutional rights of private citizen.

    ReplyDelete